Can we grade Enduro events?

[scratchy]

You're right Cryline.

Just tell them that they are wrong and there is no need to educate them.

[Gus]

I don't know why you'd need to grade a trail. By its very nature a MTB endurance event is going to be nothing like a road race. Roadies would have to be pretty thick to think its not gonna be technical. I know all tracks are different so maybe a brief descrioption of the course is all thats necessary? eg percentage of singletrack to firetrail, elevation etc.

Isn't it logical to get practice in before an event? Why wouldn't they ride some of the course beforehand anyway?

Simple is best.

Most of the Enduro Event's don't let you know the course before the event, mainly because some is on Private land and only open for the event and or the Marking is only done just before the event.
I think that there needs to be more passing point's built into single track for these event's though. Say a logover with a longer B line, this gives the Mountain bikers a chance to pass on the single track.

Signage on Single track - DEC in Collie Are very helpfull with signage, they are actually paying for the signage for the Pile road trails.
We as SWMTBC are going to put signs up at TTF's which we will pay for

[Jagman]

The only enduro event I've competed in is the 12 hour. You get a good drillling in passing etiquette at the start, and I didn't have any  trouble with any of the passing I did. Some people may have, because I would go out of my way to make sure some of the fastest riders got a clear run, and they would be very appreciative, as if they didn't get that very often.

[Tempest]

I don't know why you'd need to grade a trail. By its very nature a MTB endurance event is going to be nothing like a road race. Roadies would have to be pretty thick to think its not gonna be technical. I know all tracks are different so maybe a brief descrioption of the course is all thats necessary? eg percentage of singletrack to firetrail, elevation etc.

Isn't it logical to get practice in before an event? Why wouldn't they ride some of the course beforehand anyway?

Simple is best.

I've seen plenty of very good MTB riders get dropped out of road races too. Not because they weren't strong enough, but because they hadn't practiced on the road and riding in bunches. MTB'ers would have to be pretty thick not to realise that a bunch is faster than an individual.

You might use a bike, but sometimes thats where the similarities end. Not everybody realises this. Also, the technique for technical riding is not natural to most beginners. Grading is a good idea, but should an enduro course really be super technical?

[Backdoor]

Over the ditch here, most of the trail centers I been out to and ridden have ratings at all of the trailheads, and signposts when your approaching steep stuff or structures. Taupo and 7Mile have been geat for this.  Most of I've ridden and thought, pfft, are you serious? is that it?But roadies, would likely shart their grundies rolling up to some of this stuff.

 If there's an enduro in these areas, which isn't all the time (cause they like to race from one side of the island to the other over here, for some reason-nutters!) most of the time you can get in and suss the course, or at least some of it because it's not all on private property. Many of the trails that are big long rides, from one mountain range to the next are open to the public, well, thats how it looks to me.

In relation to the abilities of athletes from other disciplines...I'm here with a couple of people doing the IM NZ, and their likely to come close, if not qualify for the Kona IM, the pinnacle of the sport, the fittest people I know, but they'll  clench the sphincter the second the back wheel slips on a bit of dirt. Riding isn't always the strength of these guys that do mutisport event's but the'll bring something else to the mix that's for sure

[cryline]

I really should have put some thought into my post and reread before posting...

Of course trails should be graded. Entering an MTB race, one would assume the roadie would own or have access to a MTB so they would get some practice in ooffroad. They mnight not be the best technical riders but they'd have an idea of what to expect. Just like a mtber entering a road race.

Grading an enduro course (as well as a description, not just a blue, green type classification) would give riders a better understanding of what they'll be in for. There's a pretty big opportunity to grow MTB particulary enduro events by getting more roadies so it'd be good to get some crossing over and staying. by giving them more of an idea what they're in for will help. But its really up to them to get some practice in and work on their technical skills.

[wal]

I dont think there is any way to prepare a roadie who has not ridden off road, for an enduro on normal singletrack.
The mindset of rolling along at 30km/h+ does not work on singletrack.

If they are not competent off road, Im just going to close my ears to any hardship said.

[Backdoor]

You’d have to be bonkers if you were a roadie rider and you just jumped on a mtb to do an enduro without getting much ooffroad riding under the belt. You deserve all the tight uphill switchbacks you get!
I can imagine how frustrating it would be to a seasoned mtb rider with good all-round skills to get stuck behind a roadie struggling through a technical section only to have them blast away on a fireroad section. It’s a pity you can’t really draft on mtbs, then you could get a bit of your own back.

Saw the best examples of trail signage and grading I’ve seen so far on Sunday at Rotorua. Big signs at every trailhead, maps at nearly every major intersection, directional arrows where trails cross each other and big signs where there are drops and gaps (One black arrow pointing down meant a semi tech drop or gap, up to 3 or 4 arrows for the more gnar). Even signs that said “Nanna” pointing towards chicken shoots. It was also here where I came across people who understood passing etiquette, well, the first time I was actually passing people. Most people would hear you come up behind them and automatically pull over, if not all it took was a quick “Rider” call and they’d call “my left’ or whatever, you give them a thankyou/cheers/sweet as cuzzie bro and away you go. I guess this could to be traced back to the passing etiquette thing being explained it the signage at the main carpark/hub area, where most people will go on their first visit. If you aren’t aware of the system then you find out pretty quick, like when someone calls you off a wave out surfing I spose. You burn them and you’ll cop an earful. We’re much more friendly on bikes though eh.

Oh yeah, my friends killed it in the ironman. My mate got 22nd male overall – beat 6 pros!, 8th in his age group. His missus stormed home for a 2nd in her age group. So they both qualified for the Kona Ironman in Hawaii (More Malaga Cycles supported riders stomping it!). They’ve said Kona will be their last IM, then they plan on making the switch to offroad multisport/adventure racing, so I’ll be able to see firsthand how hard it is for them to switch to dirt. Should be interesting.

[wal]

Im covinced that enduros cant be graded specifically for roadie 1st timers.

Put the L plates on and learn before you try.

[murray]

Great description of the trail head signs and grading signs Backdoor, if you have any photo's or information I would like to have a look, you can contact me at kctrailbuilder@iinet.net.au.

The Kalamunda Circuit Project has plans for Trail Head signage, Large Car Park with toilet all the features you described but until we build a substantial section of trail it's not going to happen.

If you ride Blue-Black graded trails come and help build over 20 kilometres of single track.


Cheers

Murray

[Backdoor]

Sorry Muzz. The few pics I did have of signs and trail features etc have been some how scaled down by my camera to the point where it's pointless trying to see anything. No Ideaa how it happened, but Im bummed cause there was heaps of good pics I had, just for that purpose. But, I'd direct you to the Queenstown MTB club and Rotorua club if you were after examples of good signage, trail adoption and maintenance ideas.

EEEdit!


http://www.riderotorua.com/trails2.php?catid=2&id=73 There's a start. That trail was a bit of a prick on a DH bike after the 30th switchback or something, the corners just don't stop.

Those are the sort of signs you'll see down the trail where you drop in off fire road or cross another trail.
Couldn't call myself a HucktoFlat member and not ride Huckleberry Hound or Little Red Riding Huck. Goodness they were, sweet as eh bro

[Jagman]

I've just been given a CD full of pictures of signage from the Forrest and Beechworth MTB parks in Victoria, I'll see what I can find in them.

[Tempest]

Im covinced that enduros cant be graded specifically for roadie 1st timers.

Put the L plates on and learn before you try.

I agree.

Except for this one.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/otway-odyssey-ne/marathon/photos/107088

[Jagman]

In case people missed it, that photo was in relation to this story  http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/road-pro-arndt-wins-her-first-mountain-bike-race

That's bloody impressive, they must have been killer climbs.

[rossmic]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/otway-odyssey-ne/marathon/photos/107088
[/quote]

Look at those bars...